MICROOBSERVATORY ONLINE CHAT SESSION
FRIDAY 7/18/97
TOPIC:
1) Something you  learned this week;
2) the topic on which you've decided to construct an educational
activity and with whom; and
3) what you think of the structure of the workshop.	

(PRE-MEETING CHAT)
BMellin503:	Hello from sunbaked eastern massachusetts
AlbertM497:	!Good morning from overcast Anchorage!
LFrench637:	Hello everyone!
BHoff1:	Hi all.
Nazin:	hello Linda
Nazin:	Hello Beth
NO1STAR:	Morning
NO1STAR:	Got some great images of clouds last nite  : )
AlbertM497:	Bob, you got a good image of Jupiter last night
Everhartj:	hello
LFrench637:	Yes, last night was pretty bad both places.
BHoff1:	Okay, let's start the meeting...
BHoff1:	Welcome to today's MicroObservatory Online Meeting.
BHoff1:	I will be moderating the first part of today's session;
BHoff1:	Linda will take over for the second part,
BHoff1:	when we go back to image processing.
BHoff1:	First, a quick update on protocol:
BHoff1:	We have a new symbol, !!,  for when you wish to
BHoff1:	respond to something someone has just said, rather
BHoff1:	than to the original question posed.  Those will be
BHoff1:	called on in turn also
BHoff1:	The rest is as usual:
BHoff1:	For comments on the original question, type "!",
BHoff1:	and you will be recognized in turn.
BHoff1:	When you have finished, type "GA" to let others 
know you are done.
BHoff1:	Please IM Linda if you have any questions.

TOPIC:
BHoff1:	For the first part of today's discussion, we would 
like each of
BHoff1:	you to tell the group:
BHoff1:	1) Something you  learned this week;
BHoff1:	2) the topic on which you've decided to construct 
an educational
BHoff1:	activity and with whom; and
BHoff1:	3) what you think of the structure of the workshop.
BHoff1:	After this, we will continue our discussion of 
image processing.
BHoff1:	Who would like to start?
NO1STAR:	!
BMellin503:	!
BHoff1:	GA Bob
NO1STAR:	Basically I do feel a bit more comfortable with the
NO1STAR:	system and am just learning its properties 
such as last nite I ran a filter test
NO1STAR:	I would like to do a parallax lab with the moon 
and perhaps try a meteor observing session
NO1STAR:	I think we are all lerning how to use the system 
better, but so far I find myself just trying to
NO1STAR:	learn the system and haven't been able to really 
concentrate on a project
NO1STAR:	GA
BHoff1:	That's expected...GA Bruce
BMellin503:	1. the discussion about noise and 'overexposed 
images showing up "black"
BMellin503:	2. I'm not sure of an activity yet ...
Lwaxman:	!
AlbertM497:	!
BMellin503:	3. Mostly because I have not yet "picked" a 
partner ...I am available(not ready very cute though but..
BMellin503:	Would be willing to work with anyone...on 
just about any "object"....Hello to anyone...GA
BHoff1:	Thanks Bruce!  GA Larry...
R Maki:	1
R Maki:	!
Lwaxman:	I learned for one thing that I'm not as smart at 
this as I thought.  But, I did find out the
Lwaxman:	value of downloading GIF images .  For most of 
what my students want these will be quite
Lwaxman:	fine.
Lwaxman:	I have so many new ideas that I am like the 
little child in the toy store and don"t know
JCatanz1:	!
Lwaxman:	which to pick.
Lwaxman:	I have not picked a partner yet.  I am not pretty 
either and probaly old but my mind still w
SheM2G:	!
Lwaxman:	works... GA
Nazin:	!
BHoff1:	Larry--maybe you and Bruce would be a 
good pair :)  GA Mary
AlbertM497:	I am gload to hear the discussion and feedback
AlbertM497:	in reference to failed attempts to take pictures.
AlbertM497:	It isn't proving to be as easy as one would think.
RobOchs:	!
AlbertM497:	I've been in contact with others which I find to be 
of great
AlbertM497:	value, but I also am open to any type of partnership.
AlbertM497:	In regards to the structure of this workshop I am 
finding it
AlbertM497:	to be of great value for me.  I am learning a lot 
about system
AlbertM497:	software and hardware than I had originally 
anticipated, but
AlbertM497:	this is whatt I always encourage my students 
to see...opportunities to
AlbertM497:	learn in many different areas and channels. GA
BHoff1:	GA Dick
R Maki:	#1:learned lots about AOL,Netscape,& graphic 
converter in addition to remote scope!
R Maki:	#2,  thinking about a generic remote sensing lab, 
measuring area during
R Maki:	lunar phases to reinforce math skills, meteor 
radiant work?, or perhaps
R Maki:	daily mothion of moon to look at change over time.  
 Possibly will work with
R Maki:	Mike Richards when he gets on next week, but 
still "unaffiliated".
R Maki:	GA
BHoff1:	Thanks--GA Joe
JCatanz1:	1.  I've learned how to get the information 
I need to observe asteroids
Everhartj:	!
JCatanz1:	and something of the limitations of the 
telescope.   Also I've identified which image proces
JCatanz1:	sing programs will be most useful to me.
JCatanz1:	2.  There are several projects I would like to 
try
JCatanz1:	A.  parallax distance to Moon. Problem is that
JCatanz1:	with a ND filter you cant get marker objects 
like stars
JCatanz1:	or planets which help to indicate position of 
moon
JCatanz1:	I suppose one could use the RA and DEC from 
the header information,
SheM2G:	!!
JCatanz1:	if the  tracking error is small enough.
JCatanz1:	B.   measurement of asteroid angular velocity 
and color
JCatanz1:	C. color-mag diag of open cluster
JCatanz1:	D. average together a large # of images to get a 
deep image
JCatanz1:	or galaxy cluster field
JCatanz1:	(sorry) of a galaxy or galx cluster field.
JCatanz1:	Probably won't have time to do them all!!
JCatanz1:	Contact me if you are interested in any of these.
JCatanz1:	3.  Interaction by text-based chat is too slow,
JCatanz1:	but it is certainly valuable to
JCatanz1:	ave so many people from such diverse backgrounds 
exchanging ideas!
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	Thanks for those HUGE ideas Joe.  Sheila GA to Joe's 
comment, and
BHoff1:	continue with your own...
SheM2G:	I have been thinking about a parallax project with 
the Moon as well.  My first image of the
SheM2G:	Moon was taken using the green filter.  I wonder if 
we could see stars
SheM2G:	using that filter.  I don't know; once I learned that 
the ND filter was meant for
SheM2G:	Moon, I stopped using green filter.  I will try this 
weekend...
SheM2G:	As far as my interests, I would like to design a 
project that helps students develop a
SheM2G:	conceptual understanding of the sky (scale and 
location of object in solar system
SheM2G:	and beyond).  Easy, huh?  I am concerned about 
the mathematical nature my moon challenges
SheM2G:	I am worried that students will be able to 
perform calculation without understanding what
SheM2G:	they are calculating.  Forgive me if I am 
stating the obvious.
SheM2G:	I would like to work more with the imaging 
programs as well.  There is so much to
SheM2G:	explore in them, and I think it would be valuable 
to learn about their
SheM2G:	potential in using MicroObs. scopes.  GA
BHoff1:	It seems like several of you may be interested 
in this.  GA RobBHoff1:	It seems like several of you may 
be interested in this.  GA Rob
RobOchs:	1.  What I learned this week:
RobOchs:	a lot about CCD "hot pixels" and how to distinguish 
them from stars
RobOchs:	the FIT file format and how it differs from gif 
jpg etc
RobOchs:	the Kodak KAF1400 CCD and its properties
RobOchs:	What an electronic zoom is
Nazin:	!
RobOchs:	exposure times for various objects with the mo 
telescope
RobOchs:	the good/bad points of three image processing 
packages
RobOchs:	What "charge migration" is in regard to overexposed 
images
RobOchs:	2.  I am working on a project to convert the CLEA
project
RobOchs:	"The revolution of Jupiter's Moons" to a basic high 
school
RobOchs:	format that can be used with mo.  I am trying to 
reduce the mathematics
RobOchs:	to a level that can be understood by everyone.
RobOchs:	Currently I am working with Linda but anyone 
else is welcome as
RobOchs:	there is a lot of work to do in the project.
RobOchs:	We ultimately want to use measurements of 
Jupiter and its
RobOchs:	satellites to determine the mass of Jupiter.  
I am finding
RobOchs:	that getting accurate values for Jupiter's diameter
RobOchs:	may be difficult due to overexposure.  It is keeping 
me busy
RobOchs:	3.  Structure of sessions.  Agree that is very slow 
but probably
RobOchs:	the best under the conditions.  I would recommend 
giving the
RobOchs:	topic to be responded to the night before to allow 
thought and
RobOchs:	development of concise responses
RobOchs:	ga
BHoff1:	I'll keep that in mind about getting the topic well 
in advance.
BHoff1:	Also, I guess we should keep in mind that if we 
need a lot of exploration time,
BHoff1:	we should expect our students to need at least 
that much.
BHoff1:	GA John
Everhartj:	I have learned a bit about image processing although 
I have a LONG way to go
Everhartj:	It is still very confusing, but I am not sure how 
necessary it may be...
Everhartj:	for my applications.
Everhartj:	I had originally thought of an asteroid activity, 
but I am not sure the short exposure times
Everhartj:	will allow satisfactory results.
Everhartj:	Before the exposure max was lowered to 60 
sec, I had a pretty good image of an asteroid
Everhartj:	at 300 seconds.  You could identify it by a 
smear against a field...
Everhartj:	of fixed stars.
JCatanz1:	!!
Everhartj:	Another idea is to establish a image directory 
of all of the Messier objects visible at the
Everhartj:	latitudes of our current 'scopes.
Everhartj:	As far as the format, I am enjoying it, although 
I must admit that I was not...
Everhartj:	excited about having to use AOL, now that I am 
used to it, I am getting addicted.GA
BHoff1:	I've had the same experience with aol.  GA Joe.  
(after Joe is Bill)
JCatanz1:	John: please see my bulletin board posting of 
this morning
JCatanz1:	YOu can take short exposures of asteroids on 
consecutive
JCatanz1:	nights and the asteroid will reveal itself as 
the object which moved.
JCatanz1:	also, asteroids don't need long exposures -- 
bright ones are
JCatanz1:	mag 8, 9, 10 and should only require a few seconds
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Bill
Nazin:	I learned what a pixel is :-) and how to use Graphic 
Convertor. I have also learned to use
Nazin:	resources available to me ie.  Sky Tel other peoples 
pictures times taken
Nazin:	and that kind of stuff
Nazin:	and I also picked peoples brains.  Thanks Sheila
Nazin:	As for my project.  I have had a conversation with 
Roy about my time line project which will
Nazin:	combin star history and personal history of the 
children.
Nazin:	This should truely cross over to all areas of study.
RobOchs:	!!
Nazin:	I have made a short presentation on Hyper-studio if 
anyone has it I would be glade to send i
Nazin:	I've also talked to Linda and Mary about getting our 
classes together
Nazin:	In very different ways.
Nazin:	The structure of the workshop has been just fine for 
me.   GA
BHoff1:	Collaboration between your classes should be very 
interesting.  GA Rob
RobOchs:	Bill ... you might want to check out page 137 in the 
"Project Spica" book
RobOchs:	I wrote a lab called "Light Travel Times and Earth 
History" and it
RobOchs:	relates the distances of the stars with historical 
events the students research GA
Nazin:	Thanks I will
BHoff1:	Would anyone like to comment or question about 
someone else's interests?
LFrench637:	!
BHoff1:	GA Linda
LFrench637:	I just wanted to say that I am excited about 
the prospect of pairing up my
LFrench637:	college students with Bill's elementary 
students.  I think this is a great use
LFrench637:	of the telescopes and the Net.
LFrench637:	GA
Lwaxman:	!
BHoff1:	It looks like image processing took a back seat 
today--we'll get back to that..
BHoff1:	GA Larry
Lwaxman:	I have learned more today and am really excited 
about all the project ideas. Hope we all get
Lwaxman:	copies when finished.
Lwaxman:	GA.
BHoff1:	We are planning to link your activities to the site, 
and of course give
BHoff1:	you credit for them.  So everyone will be able to 
access each
BHoff1:	other's activities.
BHoff1:	We will have to get back to ip next week, but are 
there any last questions for today?
LFrench637:	!
BHoff1:	GA Linda
LFrench637:	I would just like feedback on the material I've 
posted on the BB.
LFrench637:	It would be good to know if it's too much, or 
too little, whatever.
LFrench637:	Thanks.
LFrench637:	GA
Everhartj:	!
NO1STAR:	!
BHoff1:	GA John
Everhartj:	I have found the info on the BB to be very helpful.  
I print it out and use ...
Everhartj:	it at my convenience GA
Nazin:	!
BHoff1:	Good idea.  GA Bob
NO1STAR:	Just wanted to suggest that if people are about 
in the evenings that we can als chat then as well
JCatanz1:	!
NO1STAR:	I need to go and see some of you over the weekend !!!
NO1STAR:	GA
BHoff1:	Bob--Why not suggest a time and post it on the 
BB and others can join you online.
BHoff1:	GA Bill
Nazin:	I would love to see some suggestions for "GOOD" 
pictures tonight. GA
BHoff1:	GA Joe (then, any suggestions for Bill?)
JCatanz1:	Web postings have been very useful.  Please 
continue to
JCatanz1:	post info that you think would be useful to 
others, everyone.
JCatanz1:	GA
LFrench637:	!
BHoff1:	GA Linda
LFrench637:	About observing targets...a lot depends on 
the weather.
JCatanz1:	!!
LFrench637:	I have started looking at the map, and if it 
is questionable, taking a quick Moon exposure.
LFrench637:	If it is clear and sharp, then I go ahead.  If not, 
I don't push it.
LFrench637:	So my first advice is to make sure it's a clear 
night before going for deep sky objects.
LFrench637:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	Bill -- you should get hold of a "sky simulator" 
program
Everhartj:	!!
JCatanz1:	like Voyager (MAC) or The Sky (PC) , or Skyglobe 
(PC shareware)
JCatanz1:	these programs allow you to see which objects 
are "transiting"
JCatanz1:	the meridian (i.e. in optimal observing position) 
at any given
JCatanz1:	time, from any given place.  They are an essential 
tool for
JCatanz1:	planning an observing session.  I will post info 
on SKYGLOBE
JCatanz1:	later; the others are commercial and more costly.
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	GA John
Everhartj:	I use a program called SkyMap which I downloaded 
from the 'net
Everhartj:	You can use the free evaluation copy for 60 days 
then you can buy it
Everhartj:	for about $40.  It's great  GA
BHoff1:	This is all very useful.
BHoff1:	We're offline until Monday, unless anyone would 
like to arrange
BHoff1:	chat sessions with others before that.
BHoff1:	Any last questions before we go?
BHoff1:	Please check the BB periodically before our chat 
sessions.
BHoff1:	I'll try to post the topics earlier.
BHoff1:	And people have been posting some useful information 
there.
BHoff1:	Also check the workshop page, as we update that too.
BHoff1:	Signing off...
Lwaxman:	BYE
R Maki:	bye
LFrench637:	I'll be away until Sunday night...good observing!
RobOchs:	adios!
BHoff1:	Have a great weekend everyone--bye, and 'see' you Monday!
Everhartj:	bye
AlbertM497:	Bye
LFrench637:	bye all.