ONLINE CHAT
TUESDAY, 7/22

TOPIC:  
Steve Leiker online to answer questions about:
	-	Image Processing
	- Telescopes


You have just entered room ÒmicroobservatoryÓ
LFrench637:	Hello?  Is anyone else here?
Lwaxman:	Sorry I was trying to get the asteroids up on 
Voyager II and it is arguing with me
BHoff1:	Hi--Steve is here as Bhoff1
RobOchs:	Hi Steve
LFrench637:	Hello all.
BHoff1:	Hi Rob
THocking:	Hello all
LFrench637:	I've already been punted by AOL once today
...look out.
LFrench637:	Is everyone ready to start the meeting?
BHoff1:	yes
BMellin503:	Yes
RobOchs:	yep
R Maki:	yes
LFrench637:	Welcome to today's MicroObservatory Online Meeting.  
I'll be chairing today.
LFrench637:	Steve Leiker, the Project Engineer, is with 
Beth and will be answering questions
JCatanz1:	yes
LFrench637:	under her screen name. under her screen name.
LFrench637:	A quick review of protocol:
LFrench637:	If you have a new question or a comment, 
please type "!", and you will be recognized.
LFrench637:	If you wish to add on to something that 
has just been said, or to answer a question,
LFrench637:	type "!!".
LFrench637:	When you have finished, type "GA" to let 
others know you are done.
LFrench637:	We want to give you time to ask questions of 
Steve, so that will be our first item.
LFrench637:	Then, we'd like to start focusing on projects 
and what you are working on.
LFrench637:	I'll give you some general questions on that 
toward the end, and Beth will post
LFrench637:	some guidelines on the BB as well.
LFrench637:	The floor is open for questions to Steve.
JCatanz1:	!
LFrench637:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	Why can't main camera be used for long exposures?
BHoff1:	How long is long?
JCatanz1:	400 sec exposure would go over 3 magnitudes deeper
JCatanz1:	and would put us in the running for Near-Earth 
Asteroid searches.
BHoff1:	Polar alignment error and worm error.
JCatanz1:	worm error?
BHoff1:	Worm-gear drive error.
JCatanz1:	ok
THocking:	!
JCatanz1:	ga
BHoff1:	GA Tom
THocking:	What are the plans for expanding the network?
THocking:	I see "pllanned dots" in Australia?
THocking:	And Mauna Kea too, right?
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	It depends on funding...we are currently trying to 
put one in Hawaii.  And possibly one in Israel.  GA
JCatanz1:	!
BHoff1:	GA Joe
THocking:	That's great... The more global coverage, the 
better for real time classroom use.
THocking:	GA
JCatanz1:	Want to make sure I understand the Zoom in feature: 
Correct me if I'm wrong:
SheM2G:	!
JCatanz1:	1) Zoom in uses only the central 650 x 500 pixels
of the larger frame. So its angular resolution is twice as 
good 2.5 arcsec per pixel
JCatanz1:	3) since it is operating in "unbinned" mode, the 
light is spread over more pixels.
JCatanz1:	4) the data counts per pixel will be only 25% of 
what they would be for n unZoomed exposure of the same # of 
sec,so that bright objects are less likely to saturate.
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	1) Yes
MrichardXX:	!
BHoff1:	2)No-zoomed in is 2.5 arcsec; zoomout is 5 arcsec/pixel.
BHoff1:	3)yest
Everhartj:	!
BHoff1:	4)yes
BHoff1:	GA Sheila
SheM2G:	I would like to learn more about focus.  I try to follow 
the setting recommendations, but I would like to know more about 
what they
SheM2G:	mean for the scopes.  Could you explain briefly?
SheM2G:	GA
BHoff1:	Focus is on an arbitrary scale of 0-2800, meaning that
BHoff1:	each unit is 1 motor step from zero.  Each number defines 
a different position of the focusing lens.  From trial and error,
BHoff1:	we determined approximately what setting is best, and that
BHoff1:	is what you see in the settings.
BHoff1:	GA
SheM2G:	I motor step from zero?  Everything else I understand.
SheM2G:	GA
BHoff1:	Each number, from 0 to 2800, is 1 increment in positin 
of the focusing lens.
BHoff1:	GA Mike
MrichardXX:	Hi Steve!   Using NIH, what's the difference in image 
quality between going fits to pict or
MrichardXX:	gif to pict? Do both or neither give me raw data? 
Which is the best to process and why?
MrichardXX:	ga
BHoff1:	Gif has already been manipulated.  It depends on what 
you want the image for--
For example, FITS image contains all the data.  
The gif contains only part of it
BHoff1:	But in NIH Image, it only uses 8 bits of the 
data anyway.
BHoff1:	Since gif is already manipulated, it may have 
been changed in
BHoff1:	a way that you don't want it to, whereas the fits 
image is untouched.
BHoff1:	GA
RGould50:	!And if you're going to subtract the "dark field" 
background, you have to use FITS(!)GA
BHoff1:	GA John
LFrench637:	!!
BHoff1:	okay--Linda first, then John
LFrench637:	Sorry...slow fingers.  I was just going to 
underscore the point that
MrichardXX:	!!
LFrench637:	if you want to make quantitative measurements 
with the images,
Everhartj:	I was only going to apologize for being tardy 
due to the storm.  GA
LFrench637:	like measuring magnitudes very accurately, 
you should use FITS.
LFrench637:	Otherwise you probably don't need it.  GA
BHoff1:	Mike GA
MrichardXX:	Does this mean that I cant subtract the dark 
field background with NIH?
BHoff1:	GA Linda
BMellin503:	!!
MrichardXX:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Bruce
BMellin503:	I like to save each image both as fits and gif..
LFrench637:	I'll defer to Steve or someone else on that one beth.
R Maki:	!!
BMellin503:	that way if I "discover" something new that I want 
to do later..I have a collection of images with..
BHoff1:	You probably should not subtract the dark field 
background with NIH-GA Dick
BMellin503:	different levels or info...GA
BHoff1:	Sorry--GA Dick
R Maki:	Can you do variable star magnitude work using 
FITS?
BHoff1:	Yes
BHoff1:	Other comments on this?
LFrench637:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Linda
JCatanz1:	!!
LFrench637:	Any magnitude measurement of a point source--
star, asteroid planetary satellite--will basically be the same 
procedure here.  And this is where you would want your data in 
FITS format.
LFrench637:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Joe
MrichardXX:	!!
JCatanz1:	some programs allow you to save FITS images
JCatanz1:	as GIF images so  you may not need to keep 
two copies, Bruce.
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Mike
MrichardXX:	What image processing software will open fits? 
Will Multispec?
BHoff1:	Never heard of Multispec.
BHoff1:	For the mac or PC Mike, GA?
MrichardXX:	forgot GA
MrichardXX:	MAC GA
BHoff1:	Sky Probe for the Mac...
JCatanz1:	!
RGould50:	!!Use Graphic Converter (download from Web!)
BHoff1:	You can use Graphic Converter, but it doesn't use all
BHoff1:	16 bits of the data.
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	one question about ImageTool and one about Quantum Image.
RGould50:	(GA)
JCatanz1:	(These are PC image software, everyone)
JCatanz1:	How do you get at the FITS header in ImageTool?
JCatanz1:	and (2) Qu Im. looks like a great program but it 
doesnt accept images bigger than 256x256
JCatanz1:	so it is not useful for MO frames...?  Have I 
missed something?GA
BHoff1:	I'm not sure about the header.  But ImageTool wasn't 
designed for FIts files.
BHoff1:	2)QuanIm will open larger files, but will not do an 
FFT on larger images.
JCatanz1:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	I've had trouble getting it to open FITS files from 
MO. Wouldnt do it.
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	with Quantum Image?
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	yup.  I wonder what I'm doing wrong. It opens its 
own small demo
JCatanz1:	files, but when I give it a MO file it pretends its 
OK but shows no
JCatanz1:	image window for that file.
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	Could it be that you don't have enough memory? GA
JCatanz1:	Nope I've got 32 megs RAM
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	I only have 16 and it works for me.  Are you using 
Windows NT? GA
JCatanz1:	windows 95
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	It should work.  But you might try it on a machine that 
has NT if you can, to
BHoff1:	see if that might be the problem.  NT is more stable.
BHoff1:	GA
JCatanz1:	I dont have access to NT, but I'll look into it more, 
see if I can	determine what I'm doing wrong.  I am very glad 
to know that
BHoff1:	Does anyone else with Windows 95 have this problem? GA
JCatanz1:	it does open larger files.  I'll keep you posted. GA
NO1STAR:	!
BHoff1:	GA no1
NO1STAR:	Question - I have not had response from the AZ site 
for several days now - I submit requests
NO1STAR:	and they never appear on the obs requests -in fact the 
last ones I see are for the 19th
NO1STAR:	any problems with the site ?
NO1STAR:	GA
BHoff1:	We are trying to figure out why the AZ telescope 
is not communicating.
BHoff1:	It is still down now.
NO1STAR:	!
BHoff1:	GA Bob
NO1STAR:	What we need then for all the sites is a menu saying 
this since that has been the better sit
NO1STAR:	site for a few days now ....GA
BHoff1:	That's true.
BHoff1:	Other telescope questions? GA
BHoff1:	Other image proc. questions?
JCatanz1:	!
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	what about solar observations?
JCatanz1:	Will this be possible in the future?
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	Linda--can you answer this at all?
LFrench637:	Well...a couple of possibilities were mentioned.   
Roy, do you want to describe them?
RGould50:	GA I'll be back...
BHoff1:	It requires an external solar filter.  
We are thinking about dedicating 1 telescope to solar observations.
BHoff1:	Because it requires a solar filter be manually put on.
RGould50:	!
BHoff1:	GA Roy
RGould50:	We could try a few images first and see
RGould50:	if there are any features,
NO1STAR:	!
RGould50:	that would be interesting...  We are
RGould50:	just past the solar sunspot minimum, unfortunatelyGA
BHoff1:	GA Bob
NO1STAR:	Actually there are several solar sites on the net which 
provide nearly live images which can be looped into movies and such
NO1STAR:	if you are interested also good to check there for features
NO1STAR:	GA
BHoff1:	Thanks Bob--maybe that can serve the purpose for now.
THocking:	!!
LFrench637:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Tom
THocking:	I think it all depends one whether we feel it 
important enough  to
THocking:	dedicate the resource for student control...
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Linda
LFrench637:	Bob, would you be wiling to post the addresses 
for those web sites?
LFrench637:	That's all.  GA
BHoff1:	Bob GA
NO1STAR:	Certainly was just answering the same question - 
I think they are on my machine at work
NO1STAR:	GA
NO1STAR:	Will post on the bulletin board
NO1STAR:	GA
BHoff1:	Thanks--
NO1STAR:	!
BHoff1:	GA Bob
NO1STAR:	They work well as an activity where you have the kids 
do a hyperstudio loop to show the chan
NO1STAR:	changes - and it teaches them about the activity
NO1STAR:	GA
BHoff1:	Sounds good.  ARe there any last questions before I 
(Steve) sign off?
BHoff1:	I will sign off then.  You can email your questions to me.
BHoff1:	Bhoff1 is now Beth.
LFrench637:	Thanks Steve!
BHoff1:	I will post the
BHoff1:	questions Linda mentioned at the beginning of this meeting
BHoff1:	on the bulletin board.
BHoff1:	Last word from Steve--
BHoff1:	he may have a chance to be online again next week if 
you need him to.
BMellin503:	Sorry I have to go bye1
LFrench637:	Is that all for today, Beth?
BHoff1:	Yes--the meeting is officially over. I will stay for a few
BHoff1:	minutes in case anyone has any immediate things to discuss.
BHoff1:	End of protocol--you can just GA anytime...
SheM2G:	Beth, I should go.  I am sending the transcript for today to 
you right now.  Could you re-
LFrench637:	Ok.  I need to run now but will be online later if 
anyone is looking for me.
SheM2G:	send those from last week at Illinois account.  Thanks!  BYE.
JCatanz1:	I gotta go to Pasadena.  THis was a good session. Thanks all.
NO1STAR:	Need to go, but will leave the puter on for a bit to 
record what is being said
BHoff1:	Okay--thanks for the good questions--bye Joe
THocking:	I'm looking for someone to work on a project with...
if you are interested, please email me.
THocking:	Nothing subtle about me!  :)
NO1STAR:	Tom, haven't decided on one yet - but I would like to 
do some meteor work
NO1STAR:	perhaps from the two sites close together in MA
NO1STAR:	or is that Mass ?
NO1STAR:	still learning the system
THocking:	That sounds like an interesting idea, NO1
THocking:	MA = Mass
NO1STAR:	Also something using the main scope - probably lunar
NO1STAR:	With the Lunar Prospector launch this fall - we ought to 
develop some thype of program
THocking:	Good idea...
THocking:	There's an occultation of Aldebaran by the Moon next week....
NO1STAR:	Most definately then
NO1STAR:	Good parallax case there - since we can compare two 
locations to see wheren it enters
NO1STAR:	Need to get the AZ scope up and going !!!!!
NO1STAR:	Hint!!!!
BHoff1:	I saw that.  I agree.  Unfortunately I have little 
control on that end.
NO1STAR:	I understand, but you can give a reason why it 
needs to be tended too
NO1STAR:	has the weather in Mass been marginal too
BHoff1:	The weather has just started clearing up a bit 
this afternoon.
NO1STAR:	but Tom, those a re good projects and we can also 
look for a minor metoeor shower to perhaps
BHoff1:	You can always check through the weather link.
NO1STAR:	try and cover as well
THocking:	The stars were out in Indy last night.. 
Planet Hollywood opened... :)
THocking:	I'm game...NO1
THocking:	I'll contact you via email or we can come chat 
privately to discuss the details...
NO1STAR:	The weather link provides a clue and that is what I go by - 
sure look forward to AX getting
NO1STAR:	back on line though since we need the widely 
seperated positions
NO1STAR:	How often have they been crashing ?
THocking:	:)
BHoff1:	The AZ scope doesn't have the hardware that checks 
to see
NO1STAR:	Did you see my thoughts about a northern scope ?  
Remember there is lots of nite during the
NO1STAR:	school year available up there - plus the aurora
BHoff1:	if it has crashed, and then reboot it if it has.
BHoff1:	The other scopes have that, which is why they are 
always up and running.
BHoff1:	We don't have someone there monitoring it at all 
times, no.
AlbertM497:	Just read the earlier posts about weather....
we haven't seen stars since 1st of May.  Actually, we were down 
in L.A. in June and saw them.
AlbertM497:	No sign of nighttime for another month.