MICROOBSERVATORY ONLINE DISCUSSION
WEDNESDAY, JULY 23
TOPIC:
Please describe how you expect the collaborative process 
to take place.  Will your students work in	teams within 
your classroom; in teams among more than 1 classroom 
your school; with students at other schools; individually; 
or in some other format?
What are the advantages/drawbacks of collaboration 
in a computer-based environment?

You have just entered room ÒmicroobservatoryÓ
LFrench637:	Hi!
BHoff1:	Hello Linda and Mary.
AlbertM497:	'Morning
LFrench637:	Hi Mary!
AlbertM497:	'Morning...it still is, you know, here in Ak.
R Maki:	Beth, tried to get into the image site around 
2 pm and it would take me.  Problems?
LFrench637:	Hi Dick.  Do you mean the home page?
R Maki:	No, the image directory
BHoff1:	I haven't tried it today--let's ask Freeman 
when he gets online.
R Maki:	ok
BHoff1:	BTW, We are going to be able to chat from the 
MO web site in a month or so..
Nazin:	Hi everyone
BHoff1:	And we will also have our own bb there.
BHoff1:	Hi Bill
LFrench637:	That's good news, Beth.
BHoff1:	I think so too.  Let's start and the others can 
join as they arrive.
BHoff1:	Welcome to today's MicroObservatory Online Meeting.
BHoff1:	I have a brief announcement before we begin.
BHoff1:	The questionnaire is now online.  Please access it by 
going to the workshop
BHoff1:	home page, http://mo-www.harvard.edu/Workshop/
BHoff1:	and click on Questionnaire (IF YOU DON'T SEE THE 
QUESTIONNAIRE ON THE PAGE, HIT
BHoff1:	"RELOAD" ON THE WEB BROWSER).  Ideally we would like 
you to complete and
BHoff1:	submit it to us by Friday.  We know that your answers 
will probably evolve between
BHoff1:	now and the end of the workshop (and beyond)--this is 
simply to keep track of
BHoff1:	progress and to give us info that will help us determine 
next step for this workshop.
BHoff1:	Please e-mail either Linda or me if you have 
questions or problems.
BHoff1:	Switching gears...
BHoff1:	To make a comment, type "!",  and you will be 
recognized in turn.
BHoff1:	Type "GA" to let others know you are done.
BHoff1:	Type !!,  when you wish to respond to something 
someone has just said, rather than to comment on the original 
question posed.
BHoff1:	Side conversations using Instant Messages (IM's) 
are encouraged.
BHoff1:	Today's topic is student collaboration on MicroObs 
projects (which happens to also be #6 on the questionnaire).   
Please describe how you
BHoff1:	expect the collaborative process to take place.  
Will your students work in:
BHoff1:	teams within your classroom; in teams among more than 
1 classroom in your school;
BHoff1:	with students at other schools; individually; or 
in some other format?
BHoff1:	What are the advantages/drawbacks of collaboration
BHoff1:	in a computer-based environment?
BHoff1:	GA
RobOchs:	!
BHoff1:	GA Rob
RobOchs:	I will have my students working in groups within 
the classroom.  I also
RobOchs:	have discovered today that a student in VT is 
interested in the project I am working
RobOchs:	on and he will be doing an indepenent project 
there at his high school.  I firmly
RobOchs:	believe in cooperative learning -- it is certainly 
more fun that the old lecture approach.
RobOchs:	GA
THocking:	!
BHoff1:	I agree--do you see any drawbacks to it though? GA
RobOchs:	There are always drawbacks ... some students
BHoff1:	GA Tom
RobOchs:	go along for the ride
Lwaxman:	!
THocking:	I think that depending on the classroom 
environment, my tendancy is to work in team in the 
classroom.. oviously if the school was bigger and curriculum 
tracking the same, then I would be in favor of coordinating 
multi-class and even multi-school projects...
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	I see what you mean.  GA Larry
BHoff1:	Larry?
Lwaxman:	I think that coop is the anly way to attack 
today's problems with ed.
Lwaxman:	Like every other educational scheme Coop Learn 
has its draw backs.
Lwaxman:	But there are ways of working this out.  
I find I am busier than
Lwaxman:	in any other type of teaching at first but 
after they all get
Lwaxman:	the hang of it. It then works very well.
Lwaxman:	The IN is a great place for them to learn real coop.
Lwaxman:	Ga
BHoff1:	Why are you busier when they work in groups?  GA
MrichardXX:	!
BHoff1:	GA Mike
Lwaxman:	Because I have to become a part of every group  
This means I reall y have to move
Nazin:	!
THocking:	!!
Everhartj:	!!
Lwaxman:	GA
BHoff1:	Now I see--GA Tom
SheM2G:	!
THocking:	The more computerized the class, the more 
prepared *everyone* has to be...
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	GA John
Everhartj:	What is the 'IN' ?  GA
BHoff1:	I assumed internet--is that right Larry?
Lwaxman:	Internet
BHoff1:	GA Mike
Lwaxman:	Yes
MrichardXX:	I'll have my students work in teams of 2 or 
3 within the class.
MrichardXX:	Advantages are that students take responsibility 
for their own learning.
MrichardXX:	Also, students teach one another
MrichardXX:	Disadvantage in that some students have a difficult 
time in groups.
MrichardXX:	Some can"t deal well with peers, some just want to 
solve the problem
MrichardXX:	alone because it is "easier and quicker" that way.
MrichardXX:	GA
BHoff1:	I think we've all seen that happen.  GA Bill
Nazin:	Working with MO will give the children in my class the 
ability not only to work together
Nazin:	with other students in the class but also across state 
lines from Mass.  to Alaska.
Nazin:	I expect the children will first learn how to use MO 
with some help from me.
AlbertM497:	!
Nazin:	(I will tend to let them play until frustration sets in)
Nazin:	The ability  .  I expect  the on-line partners will 
interact and help out more than I will.
Everhartj:	!
Nazin:	I'm soory for the problem with my message I am trying 
out the note pad
Nazin:	1) use an on-line telescope 2) speak and work with 
students their age from Alaska 
3) receive guidance from student teachers who are learning 
along side them (on-line)
Nazin:	I think all I just said speaks too the benefits of  
on-line collaboration.
Nazin:	The problems with it may be that students are used to 
working alone on the computer
Nazin:	until the finished product.  At that time they share 
what they have done.
Nazin:	Those kind of questions should be answered as we work.  
Ga  Sorry again
BHoff1:	It sounds like a great project.  GA Mary
Nazin:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Mary
AlbertM497:	My project originated from a science grant 
I received for this year.
AlbertM497:	The MO is an added bonus that I am planning 
to work in.  It
AlbertM497:	seems that the project continues to mushroom 
into all kinds of
AlbertM497:	opportunities.   I will be working with only my 
class within the school.  I will be
AlbertM497:	collaborating with schools in NY, Australia and, 
hopefully, a high school here in Alaska.
AlbertM497:	Kids will be in teams. Coop learn takes a 
significant amount of
AlbertM497:	planning, diagnosing, re- teaching, and 
individualizing lessons.
AlbertM497:	But, I agree with Larry.  The end 
results are the more powerful
AlbertM497:	and more rewarding for students and educators.  
It seems that
AlbertM497:	with coop learning groups will take a tack that 
I never anticipated.  We all end up learning so much more  
than was 	originally in my goals and objectives.
AlbertM497:	I have been copying and pasting my response 
from the 	notebook....so I hope this was pasted correctly.  GA
BHoff1:	GA John
Everhartj:	I plan to continue as I did at the end of last 
year by allowing the students to work in ...
Everhartj:	groups of 3-4.  This is not based on pedagogy 
as much as facilities.
Everhartj:	We only have one computer available for on-line use, 
but we have 8...
Everhartj:	others that available to run various astron. programs.  
On a typical ... 	day the groups will find the coordinates of 
their object on the ...
Everhartj:	computer, then the group takes turns requsting their 
images.  Then... they can be viewed the next morning by the 
entire class and gently critiqued
Everhartj:	GA
BHoff1:	Do students "sign up" for online time?  GA John
Everhartj:	No.  I a 90 min class period, we usually have time 
for each group to research one...
Everhartj:	object and take two or three images of that object.GA
RGould50:	?
BHoff1:	GA Roy
RGould50:	In some schools the online computer is in the library, 
not the classroom.  Is that a problem for anyone here?
LFrench637:	!!
Nazin:	!
BHoff1:	GA Linda
Lwaxman:	!
LFrench637:	It is a problem for my college 
(we are still in the Dark Ages).
LFrench637:	We have one classroom that has Internet access, 
but it is in a different building
LFrench637:	from the science labs.  The science labs apparently 
will be the last to be connected.
LFrench637:	So this will require some planning and 
scheduling.  GA
BHoff1:	GA Bill
Nazin:	I'm not sure if I see it as a problem.  I think 
the children will do fine in the library
Nazin:	In some ways it might be a distraction for others 
in the class and maybe for the on-line
THocking:	!!
Nazin:	worker.     I should have 3 computers in the library all 
on-line and mostly for my class  GA
BHoff1:	GA Tom
THocking:	Actually it seems that having the online machine out 
of the classroom
THocking:	would be less of a distraction...as long as it's use
is monitored... :)
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Larry
Lwaxman:	We can have 16 comp. on the net but our space is 
better served with 8.
Lwaxman:	Therefore groups of 4 are the most effective.  I 
assign each member of
Lwaxman:	the group a social task as well as an academic one.  
The poorest student in
Lwaxman:	the group is always the recorder. Each group has to 
achieve both socially
Lwaxman:	acceptable goals as well as academic.  I always 
assign the groups.
Lwaxman:	They will also be working on the projects with one 
of Bruce's groups
Lwaxman:	on line on the labs and projects that Bruce and I  
work out together.  GA
BHoff1:	Can you give an example of a social task?  GA Larry
Lwaxman:	One of the members is a person who makes sure all 
the members of the group are participating
Lwaxman:	Ga
SheM2G:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Sheila
SheM2G:	Just like you can assign a very talkative child the 
task of observing and not saying a word...  GA
BHoff1:	Does anyone assign a "mediator" or someone to resolve 
problems if they arise?GA
SheM2G:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Sheila
SheM2G:	Sure.  I have little experience with group work (I have 
a scipt of comments prepared when I am called)
BMellin503:	!
SheM2G:	but I have done projects where one student acts as 
mediator/decision maker.  It is helpful when the
SheM2G:	group is losing direction.  GA
BHoff1:	GA Bruce
BMellin503:	Discussions of classroon approach methods always 
amazes me..
BMellin503:	every few years we try to re-invent the wheel....
BMellin503:	I like using multiple approaches...lacture...canned 
activities...computer assignments...
BMellin503:	homework..papers and reports....
Lwaxman:	!!
BMellin503:	I plan to concentrate this fall on each student's 
responsiblity to complete a set of assigned tasks...
BMellin503:	Larry and I plan to have our students search for 
asteroids this fall...
BMellin503:	We hope to have collaboration between our students
BMellin503:	in alasla and massachusetts...
BMellin503:	I like the idea of students working together..
BMellin503:	but I feel that each should produce  but generating 
a document that is individual.. GA
BHoff1:	GA Larry
BMellin503:	sorry that last line was a bit akkward..hope you 
know what I mean
Lwaxman:	I think we all do the mult. approach system.
Lwaxman:	but the students are lacking in the ability to 
cooperate They are too much in the competative mode
Lwaxman:	In my classes they both must coop. and produce 
individual work  GA
SheM2G:	!
BHoff1:	GA Sheila
SheM2G:	I think my earlier (!) was missed.
SheM2G:	Sorry I am late today.
BHoff1:	OOps--sorry sheila!
SheM2G:	An Apple support technician just left my home.  
He just replaced my logic board on my Performa 6400
SheM2G:	No problem!!
SheM2G:	(again).  My processor melted this time (!).  Amazing.
SheM2G:	With group work/cooperative learning groups, I am 
concerned about the breakdowns of the
SheM2G:	groups.  With high school students, the boys tend 
to take over anything technical, while
SheM2G:	the girls watch.  Even in same sex groups I worry 
about the less confident students shying
SheM2G:	away from the computers.  I was able to experiment 
with some cooperative learning projects
SheM2G:	this past year, but I look forward to more 
experimentation in the future.  (Thus, I am
SheM2G:	pleased to hear all of your comments today.  
This past year, I completed my student
SheM2G:	teaching for certification.  I did not receive my 
own classes; rather I team-taught with
SheM2G:	my mentor teacher.)  He liked to lecture most, and 
it was very difficult to convince him
SheM2G:	to try new ideas.  I look forward to trying some of 
my ideas this year.  I know that most
SheM2G:	of them will need to be ammended, but that is part 
of the learning process as a teacher.
SheM2G:	I think the end results of cooperative learning 
can far outweigh independent work (as
SheM2G:	others have mentioned).
SheM2G:	Finally, I am looking forward to experimenting 
with MO in the classroom.  My room will be
SheM2G:	equipped with several classrooms, and I have access 
to a computer center.  I am copying
SheM2G:	this conversation; it will be a good resource, as 
all of you will be too.  :)
SheM2G:	I know some of my comments are a little late in the 
conversation, but I wanted to post
SheM2G:	them because I am learning from all of your comments, 
and I wanted you know where I am.  GA
MrichardXX:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Mike
MrichardXX:	One thing that has worked is to have ths girls in 
their own team
MrichardXX:	GA
Lwaxman:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Larry
Lwaxman:	The idea is for every0one to learn to contribute.  
It is up to the teacher to make sure this
Lwaxman:	happens...GA
SheM2G:	!! Thanks!  GA
Lwaxman:	Gotta Go To another School Bye
BHoff1:	Good points from all.  The meeting and protocol are 
officially over.
BHoff1:	Feel free to stay and chat amongst 'ourselves'  :)
R Maki:	!
BHoff1:	GA Dick--no more need for protocol, but we're 
still here.
R Maki:	What are the guidelines for student access to 
the MO?   What about unsupervised visits?
BHoff1:	I'm not sure what you mean.  Could you 
elaborate?
THocking:	Do students go under our access?
R Maki:	Can my students access the MO at night from 
their own homes with supervision from parents?
R Maki:	In some ways, it would be a terrific family 
science project to explore.
R Maki:	ga
BHoff1:	Yes--I think students should be able to use it, 
especially at night.
BHoff1:	Now that we will have more users however,
BHoff1:	I'm expecting that there will be longer wait times 
for using the telescopes.
Everhartj:	Last year, each of my students had their own 
user ID's. Were there any conflicts?
Everhartj:	Many of them had Internet access at their homes  
and used Mo after hours.
RobOchs:	What is the estimated capacity of mo in terms 
of # of students?
Everhartj:	There wasn't a problem as far as I know, 
but as users increase...
Everhartj:	I am not sure.
R Maki:	How did you get the individual passwords, John?
BMellin503:	the current interfaces appears to allow only 
12 images/hour/telescope
BMellin503:	Is that our limitation...GA
Everhartj:	Each student used their school student ID number 
as their password
Everhartj:	GA
R Maki:	good idea.
Everhartj:	gotta go.  Bye
THocking:	Beth:  I know that currently you have to give as 
password to acceess the enrollment form...
BHoff1:	The enrollment form?
THocking:	Are there plans for diff categories of enrollment, 
so you can differentiate students from te
THocking:	teachers..
THocking:	?
BHoff1:	Not presently.
THocking:	The enrollment form to access the telescopes...
THocking:	ok
THocking:	That's all I needed to know--for now!
BHoff1:	Yes--I realized afterwards.  Okay.
BMellin503:	signing off...bye for now
R Maki:	Have to go, see you!
THocking:	So long!
BHoff1:	Me too--bye!