MICROOBSERVATORY ONLINE DISCUSSION
FRIDAY, JULY 25
TOPIC:The topic for Friday's, 7/25, online chat is Evaluation:
How will you assess student learning during and 
following MicroObservatory instruction?  
For example, will students receive a "grade" for their projects; 
will their MO grade be a part of their course grade?  If graded, 
what would be the criteria for an ideal project--eg, good images, 
concise explanations, thorough lab reports, other?  What other 
assessment issues might MO projects raise?

THocking:       Hello and TGIF!
SheM2G: Ditto.
LFrench637:     Me three!  LOL
THocking:       Aol has been nasty to me all morning....
JCatanz1:       Hi all!
Nazin:  Hi everyone
Everhartj:      hello
BMellin503:     Hello from cloudy Massachusetts
THocking:       and cloudy Indiana...
Everhartj:      ditto in NC
Lwaxman:        Partly sunny Anchorage
SheM2G: muggy in chicago
LFrench637:     Beth, do we have our meeting times set 
for next week yet?
BHoff1: I assumed we were set for 1:30 edt.  Does anyone 
need to change that?
BHoff1: Would 3 be better?
JCatanz1:       I hope on Wed we could meet at 3 EDT -- 
I have jury duty in AM
THocking:       I have a conflict Tuesday
Lwaxman:        No
RobOchs:        1:30 is difficult for me all days
THocking:       I like 3 pm edt better...
BHoff1: Can anyone NOT make it at 3pm?
BMellin503:     I'm OK with any time next week...
BHoff1: Ok--I vote we change it to 3 pm edt.  I will post 
it on the BB unless anyone objects.
Everhartj:      I'm allright for any time
BHoff1: Welcome to today's MicroObservatory Online Meeting.
BHoff1: Our meeting time for next week will be daily 
at 3pm EDT.
BHoff1: To make a comment, type "!" Type "GA" to let others 
know you are done.
BHoff1: Type !!,  when you wish to respond to something 
someone has just said,
BHoff1: rather than to comment on the original question posed.
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BHoff1: Today's topic is Evaluation:
BHoff1: How will you assess student learning during and 
following  MicroObservatory instruction?  For example, will
students receive a "grade" for their projects; will their 
MO grade be a part of their course grade?
BHoff1: If graded, what would be the criteria for an 
ideal project--eg, good  images,
concise explanations, thorough lab reports, other?  
What other assessment issues might MO projects raise?
BHoff1: GA
Lwaxman:        !
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman:        Why would this be any different than 
using my planetarium, or the microscopes  to complete
THocking:       !
Lwaxman:        an assignment.  The only thing different 
about this and last year is the collaboration with
Lwaxman:        Bruce's classes. GA
BHoff1: GA Tom
THocking:       I would tend to treat this like any other lab....
THocking:       The exact scheme would be detmined by 
several factors
SheM2G: !
THocking:       collaboration/social skills, accomp of the 
assigned tasks, write-up, etc.
THocking:       Of courese the elementary activity would be 
treated a bit differently...
THocking:       GA
BHoff1: GA Sheila
SheM2G: I would like for the students to WRITE more, which 
I find that students generally
SheM2G: do not like to do.  Some do, but many like to plug 
and chug, particlularly in a physics
LFrench637:     !
SheM2G: class.  Even in the astronomy club activities, my 
goal is for the students to write about
SheM2G: what they are doing as they do it.  I think it helps 
with understanding.  GA
BHoff1: GA LInda
LFrench637:     In some ways the grading will not be different 
from other lab courses.
LFrench637:     But it has been my experience with observing 
classes at all levels that
Lwaxman:        !!
LFrench637:     the best students at "book learning" are not 
the best students at the telescope, and
LFrench637:     vice versa.
LFrench637:     I think the collaboration with elementary 
classes that we are discussing will be an
LFrench637:     incentive to many of my students, and I expect 
the MO to improve students' performance in
LFrench637:     the class.
LFrench637:     More later...GA for now.
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman:        I To give you an exampl of the grading for a 
planetarium project.
Lwaxman:        I let the students pick a constellation and they 
(the pair) have to give the mythologic hist
RobOchs:        !
Lwaxman:        of the const. and they have to name all named 
stars, ahy other deep space object , mag, etal
Lwaxman:        then present this to their class in the planetarium.
Lwaxman:        They may earn up to 150 points for this for each 
member of the team usually two.
Lwaxman:        that is out of from a thousand to twelve hundred 
possible for sem. GA
BHoff1: Thanks for clarifying that Larry.  GA Rob
RobOchs:        I agree with Sheila ... writing is very important.  
In fact our school has made it mandatory
RobOchs:        for all classes (even physical education) to write.  
My evaluations on projects like this
RobOchs:        is based on (1) quality of research in the library 
and elsewhere
Lwaxman:        !!
R Maki: !!
RobOchs:        (2) the process of the observation and other 
physical manipulation
RobOchs:        (3) the product ... the well written paper with 
footnotes etc. GA
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman:        Sorry IMs I have to approve their written before 
they can do a presentation
Lwaxman:        Sorry AOL dumped my sent message
LFrench637:     !
Lwaxman:        I thought it dumped me it took so long
Lwaxman:        GA
BHoff1: GA Dick
R Maki: Writing in a journal describing the project could 
be another way to assess student work.
R Maki: It could incllude date and time spent, with whom, 
what was accomplished, what new questions
R Maki: were brought up, what problems were encountered 
and what other activities were generated by
Lwaxman:        !!
R Maki: the activity/project.  GA
BHoff1: GA Linda
Everhartj:      !!
LFrench637:     Beth asked me to follow up on what I had said 
before--that I expect MO to improve student
LFrench637:     performance.
LFrench637:     I said this because the biggest problem I have 
with a general class is with students who are
LFrench637:     not motivated, who don't see the topics as 
real or relevant.  Most are planning to be
LFrench637:     day care  or elementary teachers.
LFrench637:     The MO will make the astronomical objects 
more real and tangible, and
BMellin503:     !
LFrench637:     being the "senior" partner in a collaboration 
with an elementary child will inspire, I think
LFrench637:     I'm sorry that I don't have more quantitative 
rubrics at the moment.  I'm looking forward
LFrench637:     to seeing all your contributions.  Thanks.  GA
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman:        My students are all required to do an academic 
journal about yesterdays class work
Lwaxman:        these are weighted heavily. so they already do 
this as a part opf general class work.  I
Lwaxman:        them every two weeks.  GA
BHoff1: GA John (these comments about journalling are useful!)
Everhartj:      I like the journal idea.  We will probably use the 
'scopes 3-4 days/week...
Everhartj:      for the bulk of the course.  This would be an 
excellent way to teach record-keeping skills..
Everhartj:      and have a source of evaluation.  GA
BHoff1: GA  Bruce
JCatanz1:       !
Nazin:  !
BMellin503:     We all seem to have a few students who need 
motivation...
BMellin503:     I teach several evening courses to basically 
well motivated adults at Northeasther Un in Boston..
BMellin503:     Over the years I have fielded the usual 
complaints... as adults..they somethimes thinks that they 
are above homework...or anything except..
BMellin503:     coming to class...reading the text...and maybe 
writing a paper....
BMellin503:     Rexentlt I started something different....
I made testing 90% of their grade (with 10%) for attendance.
BMellin503:     If they(individual students) didnot like that ...
I gave then some CHOICES and made it their...
BMellin503:     responsiblity ...not mine to do howmwork as 
30% of their grade...A paper as 20 %...
BMellin503:     weekly projects as 20%....testing could 
be reduced to 20% of the grade...but it became their choice..
BMellin503:     not mine...they made the decision...I have 
had fewer complaints,,,,
BMellin503:     I am currently thinking as to how I will do 
something like this with my high school classes..
BMellin503:     I not sure how it will work...but I want them 
to make the choices..and have it become their...
BMellin503:     responsiblity..GA
RGould50:       ?
RGould50:       Is there a way to measure experimental skills
aside from having students
RGould50:       just use the telescope.  That is, is there a way
RGould50:       for them to reflect on what they've been 
doing experimentally?
RGould50:       GA
JCatanz1:       !!
RGould50:       I think we've lost Beth and Linda, so GA
JCatanz1:       In my asteroid/comet project the MO component will
JCatanz1:       be a significant part of the course grade.
JCatanz1:       There will be
JCatanz1:       1) A writing component, based on use of 
Internet and  library resources, to present information about
JCatanz1:       asteroids and details of discovery
JCatanz1:       of the target asteroid.  2) Competency-based component 
-- ie, comp,  ie, completion of the project and  quality of results.
JCatanz1:       3) An accurate and detailed observing journal.
JCatanz1:       4) A coherent report synthesising and presenting 
the results.  I think parts 2 and 4 of the above address 
your concern, Roy.
JCatanz1:       That is, the MO project does have a goal, and 
students must show that they achieved the goal and 
understood what they did.
JCatanz1:       GA
BHoff1: I think Bill was next, correct me if I'm wrong.
BHoff1: GA Bill (Sorry--I got booted!)
Lwaxman:        !!
R Maki: !
Nazin:  My thinking is not to decide how I will evaluate 
Mo in the classroom before it starts.   I intend to look to see 
if MO gives me any other tools
Nazin:  as to how to evaluated children differently.  
I have children in my class who are non readers and 
writers and those who do both very well.
Nazin:  You must remember I am responsible for teaching 
all subjects in my 5th grade class.
Nazin:  To look at Mo as a separate "subject" in some 
ways allows me to see the child differently.  
I hadn't thought about giving separate
Nazin:  grades, in fact I don't give grades at all.  
But to separate, by way of evaluation, the MO project 
from the rest of the science curriculum is a
Nazin:  good idea. If getting "good" pictures was the 
guidline for getting a good grade I would have been and 
would still be in trouble.
Nazin:  The Mo projects we will be doing this year 
consist of student and teacher collaboration, computer 
work including graphics, hands-on use of MO telescopes, 
cross country cooperative work,  interviews,
Nazin:  along with the journal writing, rewrites, 
and regular research these are not areas of study regularly 
put together.So in some ways
Nazin:  I will be able to see if MO motivates a child usually 
not interested  in "book" learning to work differently with 
books, magazines etc.   GA
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman:        MO is a tool.  We teach children.  
If it makes them more excited And extends
Lwaxman:        their real time learning.  Then it is great tool.
Lwaxman:        Sometimes I think we as science teachers forget that
Lwaxman:        we are not teaching science but we are teaching children
SheM2G: !
Lwaxman:        GA
BHoff1: GA Dick
R Maki: How about dangling a carrot to inspire some 
sense of competition?
R Maki: Something like a contest for the best image.
Everhartj:      !!
R Maki: It could be age appropriate and judged by your 
own kids first
R Maki: then submitted to cfa for final judging.  GA
BHoff1: Sounds like a good possibility--GA John
Everhartj:      Last year we requested images at the end 
of the period, then viewed...
Everhartj:      them at the beginning of the next class period. 
At that time we selected the "Image of the.
Everhartj:      Day".  Also, some of my student's images 
were selected to be put into the Archive...
Everhartj:      I am not sure what the criteria was, but I 
told the students that it ...
Everhartj:      was because the image was of excellent quality.  
I have a feeling that that was a ...
Everhartj:      pride that they will take with them a long time. 
 That their image was selected to be ...
Everhartj:      put in the Harvard archives.  GA
BHoff1: GA Sheila
SheM2G: Just wanted to say I have the transcript for today 
before anyone leaves.  Let me know if you
SheM2G: need a copy (booted from AOL or whatever).
SheM2G: GA
BHoff1: Me for sure.  Any other comments--it's about 2:35 now...
BHoff1: This has been very valuable.  I hope others feel the same.
JCatanz1:       !
BHoff1: GA Joe
JCatanz1:       I have a concern about the ability of the 
telescopes to take
JCatanz1:       images exactly when scheduled.  ANNIE seems 
ok with this,  but BEN gets behind.  If I asked for an asteroid 
by giving its  RA and DEC tonite, it does me no good for BEN to 
take the pictuer  two or three nights from now - the asteroid 
wont be there anymore!
JCatanz1:       GA
BMellin503:     !
BHoff1: GA Bruce
Mellin503:      !
BHoff1: GA Bruce
BMellin503:     I have been looking for Icarus...have not found it 
yet..likely toooo dim for the MO...
BMellin503:     the times on Ben (Tuscon) have seemingly 
worked well...Is Tuscon on daylight savings time...
BMellin503:     does anyone know...maybe tha's why I have 
been missing...ga
JCatanz1:       !!
BHoff1: GA Joe
THocking:       !!!
BHoff1: Whoever can answer that--jump in.
JCatanz1:       Tucson in on mountain std time, not 
daylight svgs
Everhartj:      !
Everhartj:      !!
JCatanz1:       ga
THocking:       Ariz is not on daylight time...neither 
is Hawaii.
BMellin503:     thanks...I had a notion I was looking 
about 1 hour off
BHoff1: Joe--did it actually take 3 days to get your image?
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