MICROOBSERVATORY ONLINE DISCUSSION
FRIDAY, JULY 25
TOPIC:The topic for Friday's, 7/25, online chat is Evaluation:
How will you assess student learning during and
following MicroObservatory instruction?
For example, will students receive a "grade" for their projects;
will their MO grade be a part of their course grade? If graded,
what would be the criteria for an ideal project--eg, good images,
concise explanations, thorough lab reports, other? What other
assessment issues might MO projects raise?
THocking: Hello and TGIF!
SheM2G: Ditto.
LFrench637: Me three! LOL
THocking: Aol has been nasty to me all morning....
JCatanz1: Hi all!
Nazin: Hi everyone
Everhartj: hello
BMellin503: Hello from cloudy Massachusetts
THocking: and cloudy Indiana...
Everhartj: ditto in NC
Lwaxman: Partly sunny Anchorage
SheM2G: muggy in chicago
LFrench637: Beth, do we have our meeting times set
for next week yet?
BHoff1: I assumed we were set for 1:30 edt. Does anyone
need to change that?
BHoff1: Would 3 be better?
JCatanz1: I hope on Wed we could meet at 3 EDT --
I have jury duty in AM
THocking: I have a conflict Tuesday
Lwaxman: No
RobOchs: 1:30 is difficult for me all days
THocking: I like 3 pm edt better...
BHoff1: Can anyone NOT make it at 3pm?
BMellin503: I'm OK with any time next week...
BHoff1: Ok--I vote we change it to 3 pm edt. I will post
it on the BB unless anyone objects.
Everhartj: I'm allright for any time
BHoff1: Welcome to today's MicroObservatory Online Meeting.
BHoff1: Our meeting time for next week will be daily
at 3pm EDT.
BHoff1: To make a comment, type "!" Type "GA" to let others
know you are done.
BHoff1: Type !!, when you wish to respond to something
someone has just said,
BHoff1: rather than to comment on the original question posed.
BHoff1: Don't forget to take advantage of Instant Messages (IM's).
BHoff1: Today's topic is Evaluation:
BHoff1: How will you assess student learning during and
following MicroObservatory instruction? For example, will
students receive a "grade" for their projects; will their
MO grade be a part of their course grade?
BHoff1: If graded, what would be the criteria for an
ideal project--eg, good images,
concise explanations, thorough lab reports, other?
What other assessment issues might MO projects raise?
BHoff1: GA
Lwaxman: !
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman: Why would this be any different than
using my planetarium, or the microscopes to complete
THocking: !
Lwaxman: an assignment. The only thing different
about this and last year is the collaboration with
Lwaxman: Bruce's classes. GA
BHoff1: GA Tom
THocking: I would tend to treat this like any other lab....
THocking: The exact scheme would be detmined by
several factors
SheM2G: !
THocking: collaboration/social skills, accomp of the
assigned tasks, write-up, etc.
THocking: Of courese the elementary activity would be
treated a bit differently...
THocking: GA
BHoff1: GA Sheila
SheM2G: I would like for the students to WRITE more, which
I find that students generally
SheM2G: do not like to do. Some do, but many like to plug
and chug, particlularly in a physics
LFrench637: !
SheM2G: class. Even in the astronomy club activities, my
goal is for the students to write about
SheM2G: what they are doing as they do it. I think it helps
with understanding. GA
BHoff1: GA LInda
LFrench637: In some ways the grading will not be different
from other lab courses.
LFrench637: But it has been my experience with observing
classes at all levels that
Lwaxman: !!
LFrench637: the best students at "book learning" are not
the best students at the telescope, and
LFrench637: vice versa.
LFrench637: I think the collaboration with elementary
classes that we are discussing will be an
LFrench637: incentive to many of my students, and I expect
the MO to improve students' performance in
LFrench637: the class.
LFrench637: More later...GA for now.
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman: I To give you an exampl of the grading for a
planetarium project.
Lwaxman: I let the students pick a constellation and they
(the pair) have to give the mythologic hist
RobOchs: !
Lwaxman: of the const. and they have to name all named
stars, ahy other deep space object , mag, etal
Lwaxman: then present this to their class in the planetarium.
Lwaxman: They may earn up to 150 points for this for each
member of the team usually two.
Lwaxman: that is out of from a thousand to twelve hundred
possible for sem. GA
BHoff1: Thanks for clarifying that Larry. GA Rob
RobOchs: I agree with Sheila ... writing is very important.
In fact our school has made it mandatory
RobOchs: for all classes (even physical education) to write.
My evaluations on projects like this
RobOchs: is based on (1) quality of research in the library
and elsewhere
Lwaxman: !!
R Maki: !!
RobOchs: (2) the process of the observation and other
physical manipulation
RobOchs: (3) the product ... the well written paper with
footnotes etc. GA
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman: Sorry IMs I have to approve their written before
they can do a presentation
Lwaxman: Sorry AOL dumped my sent message
LFrench637: !
Lwaxman: I thought it dumped me it took so long
Lwaxman: GA
BHoff1: GA Dick
R Maki: Writing in a journal describing the project could
be another way to assess student work.
R Maki: It could incllude date and time spent, with whom,
what was accomplished, what new questions
R Maki: were brought up, what problems were encountered
and what other activities were generated by
Lwaxman: !!
R Maki: the activity/project. GA
BHoff1: GA Linda
Everhartj: !!
LFrench637: Beth asked me to follow up on what I had said
before--that I expect MO to improve student
LFrench637: performance.
LFrench637: I said this because the biggest problem I have
with a general class is with students who are
LFrench637: not motivated, who don't see the topics as
real or relevant. Most are planning to be
LFrench637: day care or elementary teachers.
LFrench637: The MO will make the astronomical objects
more real and tangible, and
BMellin503: !
LFrench637: being the "senior" partner in a collaboration
with an elementary child will inspire, I think
LFrench637: I'm sorry that I don't have more quantitative
rubrics at the moment. I'm looking forward
LFrench637: to seeing all your contributions. Thanks. GA
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman: My students are all required to do an academic
journal about yesterdays class work
Lwaxman: these are weighted heavily. so they already do
this as a part opf general class work. I
Lwaxman: them every two weeks. GA
BHoff1: GA John (these comments about journalling are useful!)
Everhartj: I like the journal idea. We will probably use the
'scopes 3-4 days/week...
Everhartj: for the bulk of the course. This would be an
excellent way to teach record-keeping skills..
Everhartj: and have a source of evaluation. GA
BHoff1: GA Bruce
JCatanz1: !
Nazin: !
BMellin503: We all seem to have a few students who need
motivation...
BMellin503: I teach several evening courses to basically
well motivated adults at Northeasther Un in Boston..
BMellin503: Over the years I have fielded the usual
complaints... as adults..they somethimes thinks that they
are above homework...or anything except..
BMellin503: coming to class...reading the text...and maybe
writing a paper....
BMellin503: Rexentlt I started something different....
I made testing 90% of their grade (with 10%) for attendance.
BMellin503: If they(individual students) didnot like that ...
I gave then some CHOICES and made it their...
BMellin503: responsiblity ...not mine to do howmwork as
30% of their grade...A paper as 20 %...
BMellin503: weekly projects as 20%....testing could
be reduced to 20% of the grade...but it became their choice..
BMellin503: not mine...they made the decision...I have
had fewer complaints,,,,
BMellin503: I am currently thinking as to how I will do
something like this with my high school classes..
BMellin503: I not sure how it will work...but I want them
to make the choices..and have it become their...
BMellin503: responsiblity..GA
RGould50: ?
RGould50: Is there a way to measure experimental skills
aside from having students
RGould50: just use the telescope. That is, is there a way
RGould50: for them to reflect on what they've been
doing experimentally?
RGould50: GA
JCatanz1: !!
RGould50: I think we've lost Beth and Linda, so GA
JCatanz1: In my asteroid/comet project the MO component will
JCatanz1: be a significant part of the course grade.
JCatanz1: There will be
JCatanz1: 1) A writing component, based on use of
Internet and library resources, to present information about
JCatanz1: asteroids and details of discovery
JCatanz1: of the target asteroid. 2) Competency-based component
-- ie, comp, ie, completion of the project and quality of results.
JCatanz1: 3) An accurate and detailed observing journal.
JCatanz1: 4) A coherent report synthesising and presenting
the results. I think parts 2 and 4 of the above address
your concern, Roy.
JCatanz1: That is, the MO project does have a goal, and
students must show that they achieved the goal and
understood what they did.
JCatanz1: GA
BHoff1: I think Bill was next, correct me if I'm wrong.
BHoff1: GA Bill (Sorry--I got booted!)
Lwaxman: !!
R Maki: !
Nazin: My thinking is not to decide how I will evaluate
Mo in the classroom before it starts. I intend to look to see
if MO gives me any other tools
Nazin: as to how to evaluated children differently.
I have children in my class who are non readers and
writers and those who do both very well.
Nazin: You must remember I am responsible for teaching
all subjects in my 5th grade class.
Nazin: To look at Mo as a separate "subject" in some
ways allows me to see the child differently.
I hadn't thought about giving separate
Nazin: grades, in fact I don't give grades at all.
But to separate, by way of evaluation, the MO project
from the rest of the science curriculum is a
Nazin: good idea. If getting "good" pictures was the
guidline for getting a good grade I would have been and
would still be in trouble.
Nazin: The Mo projects we will be doing this year
consist of student and teacher collaboration, computer
work including graphics, hands-on use of MO telescopes,
cross country cooperative work, interviews,
Nazin: along with the journal writing, rewrites,
and regular research these are not areas of study regularly
put together.So in some ways
Nazin: I will be able to see if MO motivates a child usually
not interested in "book" learning to work differently with
books, magazines etc. GA
BHoff1: GA Larry
Lwaxman: MO is a tool. We teach children.
If it makes them more excited And extends
Lwaxman: their real time learning. Then it is great tool.
Lwaxman: Sometimes I think we as science teachers forget that
Lwaxman: we are not teaching science but we are teaching children
SheM2G: !
Lwaxman: GA
BHoff1: GA Dick
R Maki: How about dangling a carrot to inspire some
sense of competition?
R Maki: Something like a contest for the best image.
Everhartj: !!
R Maki: It could be age appropriate and judged by your
own kids first
R Maki: then submitted to cfa for final judging. GA
BHoff1: Sounds like a good possibility--GA John
Everhartj: Last year we requested images at the end
of the period, then viewed...
Everhartj: them at the beginning of the next class period.
At that time we selected the "Image of the.
Everhartj: Day". Also, some of my student's images
were selected to be put into the Archive...
Everhartj: I am not sure what the criteria was, but I
told the students that it ...
Everhartj: was because the image was of excellent quality.
I have a feeling that that was a ...
Everhartj: pride that they will take with them a long time.
That their image was selected to be ...
Everhartj: put in the Harvard archives. GA
BHoff1: GA Sheila
SheM2G: Just wanted to say I have the transcript for today
before anyone leaves. Let me know if you
SheM2G: need a copy (booted from AOL or whatever).
SheM2G: GA
BHoff1: Me for sure. Any other comments--it's about 2:35 now...
BHoff1: This has been very valuable. I hope others feel the same.
JCatanz1: !
BHoff1: GA Joe
JCatanz1: I have a concern about the ability of the
telescopes to take
JCatanz1: images exactly when scheduled. ANNIE seems
ok with this, but BEN gets behind. If I asked for an asteroid
by giving its RA and DEC tonite, it does me no good for BEN to
take the pictuer two or three nights from now - the asteroid
wont be there anymore!
JCatanz1: GA
BMellin503: !
BHoff1: GA Bruce
Mellin503: !
BHoff1: GA Bruce
BMellin503: I have been looking for Icarus...have not found it
yet..likely toooo dim for the MO...
BMellin503: the times on Ben (Tuscon) have seemingly
worked well...Is Tuscon on daylight savings time...
BMellin503: does anyone know...maybe tha's why I have
been missing...ga
JCatanz1: !!
BHoff1: GA Joe
THocking: !!!
BHoff1: Whoever can answer that--jump in.
JCatanz1: Tucson in on mountain std time, not
daylight svgs
Everhartj: !
Everhartj: !!
JCatanz1: ga
THocking: Ariz is not on daylight time...neither
is Hawaii.
BMellin503: thanks...I had a notion I was looking
about 1 hour off
BHoff1: Joe--did it actually take 3 days to get your image?
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