You have just entered room ÒmicroobservatoryÓ
BMellin503:	Is anyone having trouble with AOL mail deliveries...
they do not seem to know that mass..
BMellin503:	and alsaka are within the same country  ...
THocking:	I rarely get mail on AOL....
THocking:	I usually get it at my other account
BHoff1:	I've had trouble getting my aol mail sometimes.
RobOchs:	I get too much spam mail on AOL @#@$@#$
LFrench637:	Hello everyone!
BHoff1:	Sometimes I never get it.  Sometimes I get it 
several days late.
LFrench637:	Amen to that, Rob.
RobOchs:	Hi LInda
BMellin503:	It is just nice to know that I am not alone...
THocking:	It isn't just mail, either... :)
BHoff1:	Sometimes it gets deleted inadvertantly.  YOu are 
definitely not alone.
THocking:	AOL=pay per view for ads... :)
Everhartj:	Greetings from the sunny beaches of NC.  I am on 
vacation at Atlantic Beach NC
LFrench637:	Nice way to have a workshop, John!
CynSol:	!
RobOchs:	I am in our library at school and the a/c is 
not functioning!
AlbertM497:	Good morning, again!
CynSol:	hi, I'm finally finished conferencing and hope 
to talk with you all
BHoff1:	Welcome to today's MicroObservatory Online Meeting.
BHoff1:	I would like to welcome Cynthia Solomon of Milton 
Academy in 	Mass.
BHoff1:	She will be online with us for the rest of the workshop.
BHoff1:	Here is the online protocol:
BHoff1:	To make a comment, type "!" Type "GA" to let others 
know you are done.
BHoff1:	Type !!,  when you wish to respond to something 
someone has just said,
BHoff1:	rather than to comment on the original question posed.
BHoff1:	Don't forget to take advantage of Instant Messages (IM's).
BHoff1:	Today's topic is based on the article I recently sent you, 
"Teaching Physics On-Line."
BHoff1:	Please think about the following questions regarding 
online collaboration for
BHoff1:	discussion during the session, and respond to those 
that are most important to you:
BHoff1:	Why do you think the online format (versus face-to-face) 
might require more	independence and responsibility 
on the part of the student?
BHoff1:	What effect will the online format have on 
students' writing skills?
BHoff1:	What are the advantages of having your students 
engage in 'live' online conversations
BHoff1:	with other students, and what about with other teachers?
BHoff1:	What have been the advantages/disadvantages of 
this format for you during this workshop?
BHoff1:	GA
SheM2G:	!
BHoff1:	GA Sheila
RobOchs:	!
SheM2G:	Yikes that took a while for my response 
to register on the screen.
SheM2G:	As far as writing skills are concerned, I think it 
could be beneficial for the students.
SheM2G:	Last year I tried to have the students write more than 
they are probably used to in
SheM2G:	a physics class.  I was disappointed by the work that 
I saw, and I sometimes wonder if I was
SheM2G:	much more patient than I should have been.  If students 
have to communicate with
SheM2G:	one another, their writing will need to be clear 
and understandable.
SheM2G:	As far as the value of working online, I think kids 
today are comfortable plugged into their
SheM2G:	own worlds, whether that be a TV set or a WalkMan head set.  
I think students will be
SheM2G:	intrigued by the idea of communication through the internet.   
I think the added
SheM2G:	interest will facilitate their learning.  GA
BHoff1:	GA Rob
RobOchs:	The article that Beth sent out seemed to indicate that the 
online format was somewhat
RobOchs:	rigid and inflexible due to the daily nature 
of their assignments.  This I would
RobOchs:	assume would require less not more responsibility.  
In fact some of the
RobOchs:	respondants did not like this rigid nature of 
someone constantly watching over
RobOchs:	their shoulder.  As to writing skills, I doubt if on  
line communication improves
RobOchs:	skills in that area but the article seemed to indicate 
that students learned
RobOchs:	to think more by writing their questions ... many times 
they didn't have to submit them
RobOchs:	as they answered their own questions simply by 
typing them out
RobOchs:	As to the online workshop, I like it and think 
it is very effective GA
THocking:	!
BHoff1:	GA Tom
THocking:	I agree with Rob... the online communication 
between students may not improve writing skills, esp when ppl 
tend 2 abbrev online... U NO?
THocking:	:)
THocking:	Seriously though, I do think that online formats are 
great for thinking skills improvemntjus
THocking:	just because they are forced to tkink in order to talk...
THocking:	GA
BMellin503:	!
BHoff1:	GA Bruce
BMellin503:	Larry and I plan to have our students collaborate 
over the net....will there be a chat room ..
BMellin503:	as part of the MO pages early in the fall??  ga
BHoff1:	Yes--we're planning to have the MO chat room by 
the end of Aug.
BMellin503:	Good...that will make my planning easier ga
BHoff1:	We will also have a bulletin board.  AOL will be 
nothing more than a bad memory.
BHoff1:	(I hope they're not listening)
BHoff1:	We are also considering a newsletter page.
BHoff1:	It would like to MO, and it would be a format in 
which students
BHoff1:	would write stories about their MO research,
BHoff1:	possible give lab reports, and share questions and 
answers with each other.
BHoff1:	Correction!
BHoff1:	We will not have the chat room by Aug--
it will likely be ready
Lwaxman:	!
BHoff1:	later this year or early 98.
BHoff1:	But the BB will be done by the end of August--sorry.
BHoff1:	GA
RobOchs:	!
BHoff1:	GA Larry
Lwaxman:	With my group work that I already do, this will not 
be much different.   I have to be fairly
Lwaxman:	vigilant in the beginning anyway.  Working with others 
on line for the majority of our
Lwaxman:	students is not an entirely new experience.  They have 
been doing some of this for 1-2
Lwaxman:	years.  The more practice writing the better their skill 
become, as with anything.
Lwaxman:	With a chat room, it is quite easy to go off on your 
own tangent if the disscussion doesn't
Lwaxman:	interest you or doesn't apply.  We have to watch that.  
I met people here with much less
Lwaxman:	cost than convening at one place in the country.
Lwaxman:	I guess what it all boils down to is that they will 
get out of it what they and the teacher
Lwaxman:	will make of it.  GA
BHoff1:	GA Rob
RobOchs:	I LOVE the idea for the Newsletter Page ... 
hope it happens!  GA
MrichardXX:	!
BHoff1:	Thanks Rob--it will.  GA Mike.
MrichardXX:	Effects on writing skills while on line have 
produced mixed results for me with
MrichardXX:	high school kids. Some kids are very thoughtful 
and precise, knowing others will
MrichardXX:	read every word. Some kids just type like they talk:- 
babbling on. But usually when
MrichardXX:	it comes to a final email report  most are very 
concerned about the quality of
MrichardXX:	their writing. GA
BHoff1:	I'm curious to know from the elementary school 
teachers if they have
BHoff1:	similar issues with writing?
Nazin:	!
BHoff1:	GA Bill
Nazin:	I see two situations where on-line chat make a 
big difference in
Nazin:	conversation and interaction.   In conversation 
when your thinking
Nazin:	miss out on what others are saying.  On-line you 
can always look
Nazin:	back over the text.
Nazin:	The other situation I see is being in the position  
of having to spell correctly.  This can and is I'm sure a big 
deal for many,  me
CynSol:	!
Nazin:	included
THocking:	!
Nazin:	As far as writing skills I think the  spelling 
issue speaks	to that a little.  If a child is too worried 
about the spelling the words.
Nazin:	This can led to a more concise statement at times
Nazin:	but more often I would think it would simply lead to less
Nazin:	communication due to a simplification of words used.
Nazin:	Ga
BHoff1:	I guess this will be something to think about when 
younger and older students collaborate.
BHoff1:	GA Cynthia
CynSol:	Hi, well I have done a little experimenting and found 
that using CU SeeME was useful.  The children ev
CynSol:	the children used chat but liked seeing the people.
CynSol:	spelling was not a problem, because they don't 
spell well
CynSol:	ga
BHoff1:	Could you explain CU See ME?
CynSol:	yes
CynSol:	CU SeeMe is a free video conferencing system over
CynSol:	the Web.  Using a connectix b&W camera
CynSol:	you can get good results
CynSol:	CU stands for Cornell University the authors of this
CynSol:	system
CynSol:	ga
AlbertM497:	!
BHoff1:	Thanks--GA Tom
THocking:	In my experience, you can encourage good communication
THocking:	for elementary students by not judging too harshly on 
spelling of chat conversations, but any "reports" should be 
written more carefully...
THocking:	I do like the idea of at least having a picture 
online of the other
THocking:	folks you are chatting with...
THocking:	We all form an image in our minds eye when chatting, 
so the pictures help!
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	True, GA Mary.
Everhartj:	!
AlbertM497:	I have never had an online discussion with my class.
AlbertM497:	But as for writing skills, when we have receive
AlbertM497:	e-mail from others, my kids are quick to notice
AlbertM497:	errors in grammar, spelling, etc.  They are
AlbertM497:	horrified to think that others might have caught
AlbertM497:	their mistakes.  This gives them a different
AlbertM497:	perspective of the skills needed for communicating.
AlbertM497:	They will also point out times when a message
AlbertM497:	doesn't have a point.  Again this gives them a depth
AlbertM497:	of understanding that lecturing does not!
AlbertM497:	In ref: to CU-SeeMe, I have been told that it "hogs
AlbertM497:	too much band-width" to be used.  Can anyone respond?  
GA
BHoff1:	GA John -- (others may still respond to Mary's question)
Everhartj:	For just the transfer of info, this format seems fine, 
but for real LEARNING of
Everhartj:	difficult concepts, such as those discussed in Physics 
and Astronomy, I think...
Everhartj:	the student depends heavily on various verbal and 
non-verbal prompts that are ...
THocking:	!!
Everhartj:	missing using this format.  At the risk of seeming 
to be an educational dinosaur,  I...
Everhartj:	feel that the tone and inflection of the voice is 
still an important part of teaching.  For
Everhartj:	this worksop, the format is great, but I do not think 
I would be able to take a difficult
Everhartj:	course in this format.  GA
BHoff1:	GA Tom
THocking:	To answer two points that John raises, you can 
check out some shareware called pow-wow
THocking:	PowWow uses typed chat, whiteboards/drawing space, 
and accommodates verbal chat too!
THocking:	It is available on the web..
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	We have some time left--is there anything else you 
would like to
RobOchs:	!
BHoff1:	discuss, other than the online issue?  GA Rob
RobOchs:	In response to Mary's question ... I don't know exactly 
how much bandwidth
RobOchs:	is required for the system but I believe it is a 
series of individual 	pictures, one every second or so.  
I doubt that this would overload any
RobOchs:	system.  Currently there are live streams of radio 
programs and all kinds of
RobOchs:	gif files being downloaded -- live streaming video on 
court tv etc.  I doubt if the CU see
RobOchs:	ME takes any more bandwith than that.  GA
R Maki:	!
BHoff1:	GA Dick
R Maki:	I'm still not sure how you want the activities
R Maki:	that we produce to look like.....what do envision 
as the format?
BHoff1:	Like the questions you answered on the questionnaire, 
the activity should describe what the learning goals are, 
the specific observations that will be required, the timeline, 
specific directions regarding
BHoff1:	image processing.  You can use what you would normally 
use to plan a
BHoff1:	lesson or a lab.  Does that make sense?
THocking:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Tom
R Maki:	OK, but I can imagine that we will all still give the 
work a different shape.
BHoff1:	Dick  -- Yes, definitely
THocking:	I think as far as final format is concerned, 
I'm planning to put mine in HTML, to allow easy
THocking:	GA
THocking:	sharing even...
THocking:	GA
BHoff1:	We didn't want to give you a specific format, because
BHoff1:	we know you all have different ways of putting 
together a lesson.
BHoff1:	And you have to do it in a way that works in 
YOUR classroom.
BHoff1:	The activities will be posted for others,
BHoff1:	but it is not expected that all the activities will 
be appropriate for everyone.
BHoff1:	That's why we'd like to have a variety.
BHoff1:	It is definitely not expected that you do it in html.
BHoff1:	Once it is complete, we will make it so that it can 
be posted on the web.
BHoff1:	GA
BHoff1:	As you can see, the 2 activities already posted 
(Jupiter, and the Moon)
BHoff1:	are each quite different.
BHoff1:	Thanks everyone.  The meeting is officially over.  
Feel free to communicate without protocol, or continue your im's.
BMellin503:	Bye for now..
LFrench637:	Whew!  Busy in IM's here!
AlbertM497:	Well, this is a first for me!  I was on a whole hour 
without getting dumped!
Everhartj:	Bye
LFrench637:	A couple of people have asked about the focus on Ed.  
We are going to take some
LFrench637:	test shots at different focus values.
AlbertM497:	Question came up last Wed....in ref. to how many 
kids can have access to the MO, under what
AlbertM497:	supervision, etc.  How will this work, Beth?
BHoff1:	That is a question for us too.
BHoff1:	Someone also was wondering how we will deal with 
setting up 	accounts for each student, as they will have 
to know whose images are whose.
BHoff1:	And of course now that you are working on these 
projects, many more people will be waiting to use the telescopes.  
Hopefully the additional 2 telescopes will be placed soon.
BHoff1:	In terms of supervision, I not exactly sure 
what you mean, but we do think that students could have 
access outside of the classroom.
BHoff1:	In fact they will need to, for 
observing-time purposes.
AlbertM497:	By supervision, I mean teacher supervision.  
I assume, at least for my level,
CynSol:	bye all
AlbertM497:	that there will have to be regulations, 
just to keep the scopes freed up.
LFrench637:	I need to go all...see you tomorrow.
BHoff1:	Regulation thus far has worked by issuing passwords.
BHoff1:	But now that there will be so many more people using them
JCatanz1:	Ciao all -- lunchtime!
BHoff1:	I know we will need to have some more guidelines.  
Perhaps we will have to ask people to sign up for times.
THocking:	Until tomorrow, y'all!
BHoff1:	But I'm not sure how we would be monitoring that 
on our end.
R Maki:	Bye.  Catch you tomorrow.
BHoff1:	I have to go--but thank you for bringing this up.  
It is something
BHoff1:	we must start dealing with now.
BHoff1:	Bye, till tomorrow  :)
AlbertM497:	Bye!
AlbertM497:	Tomorrow, bye