MicroObservatory Online Chat Session
TUESDAY, 7/29
TOPIC: Bruce Mellin (The Brooks School in MA) and 
Larry Weatherwax (West Anchorage HS in AK) discuss 
the series of labls they are developing on 
observing Apollo asteroids.

AlbertM497:	Good morning all!
THocking:	Hi folks!!!!
Everhartj:	good afternoon
Lwaxman:	Hi
JCatanz1:	hello tom john, larry!
JCatanz1:	and mary!
SheM2G:	Hi.
BHoff1:	Hello everyone.
BMellin503:	Hi Shelia...Just visted your hme page today..
WOW..you have been working
BHoff1:	I will need to leave a few minutes early today, 
just so you all know.
SheM2G:	:)  Thanks, most of what you see is part of my work 
study project this past spring.
SheM2G:	(part of my masters degree).
BMellin503:	I am still impressed !!
BHoff1:	Welcome to today's MicroObservatory Online Meeting.
BHoff1:	Here is the protocol: To make a comment, type "!" 
Type "GA" to let others know you are done.
BHoff1:	Type !!,  when you wish to respond to something 
someone has just said,
BHoff1:	rather than to comment on the original question posed.
BHoff1:	Don't forget to take advantage of Instant Messages (IM's).
BHoff1:	For today's discussion, Bruce Mellin 
(The Brooks School in MA) and Larry Weatherwax 
(West Anchorage HS in AK) will discuss the MO activity 
they are currently developing for use in their classrooms.  
They are developing a series of labs on
BHoff1:	observing Apollo asteroids.  The activity will 
involve the use of Voyager to obtain the
BHoff1:	positions of asteroids.  Students will collaborate 
both in groups within their
BHoff1:	classrooms, as well as between Larry's and Bruce's 
classrooms through e-mail and the
BHoff1:	MO chat room and BB (once they are ready).
BHoff1:	Bruce and Larry will introduce their topic, and 
will answer your questions
BHoff1:	about their work so far and what they envision 
happening in their classrooms.
BHoff1:	GA
BMellin503:	I think that larry and I notes earlier that 
our project focussed on asteroids
BMellin503:	The student will first have to learn how to 
use Voyager II software
BMellin503:	Each group of student will model the position(s) 
of  asteroids
BMellin503:	basically Voyager will be a source of RA and Decl
BMellin503:	..with predicted RA's and Decs in hand...The student 
will move to MO...
BMellin503:	Two Images of the postions will have to be acquired...
possibly the same night...
BMellin503:	or over sucessive nights....Voyager can also be 
used to BACK AWAY from the Earth...
BMellin503:	so a model of the relative orbits of the Asteroids 
and the Earth can be visualized...
BMellin503:	This may provide some students with some intuition 
as to the time that will be necessary to ...
BMellin503:	detect movement...  Larry...any comments here 
as to the GROUP dynamics we might foster at this point g
BMellin503:	ga that is
Lwaxman:	We are hoping to have our groups that are associated 
from the two schools help each other
Lwaxman:	and arrive at common solutions.
Lwaxman:	GA
BHoff1:	Will students at your respective schools collaborate 
on the same problems?
BHoff1:	GA Either L or B
BMellin503:	In any case...Voyager will accomplish step 1
BMellin503:	Step 2 will be to obtain two sucessive images 
that hopefully contain an Asteroid...we have lots ,,,
BMellin503:	of hope for the process !!
Lwaxman:	Yes, We hope that we can pair groups for a problem
BMellin503:	I am currently working on step-3  an activity 
the will show students how to blink images...
BMellin503:	so the asteroid will reveal itself from all the 
background clutter ...
Nazin:	!!
BMellin503:	I am almost done....The activity will come 
self contained... mwith two recent images of Pallas...
BMellin503:	Larry and I had originally hoped to "hunt" 
asteroids..They ..unfortunately may be tooooo dim ..so we will 
have to content ourselves with the bigger...
BMellin503:	and brighter targets....comments Larry?? ga
BHoff1:	GA Bill
Nazin:	Does this project require that the students have 
internet at home?
Nazin:	Ga
LFrench637:	!!
Lwaxman:	No
BMellin503:	Not mine..I teach at a Private school with a 
very fast connetion to the net..
Lwaxman:	We also have a direst
BMellin503:	It could be done from home..
BMellin503:	I am using a 28800 moden..it is a bit slow..
but works..
BMellin503:	Help ..somebody must have a question..
BHoff1:	GA Linda
LFrench637:	I have two comments.  First, Bruce has made a good 
point about wanting to look for Apollo
LFrench637:	asteroids and backing off.  I taught observational 
astronomy for several	years at MIT, and it was always students' 
desire to look for variability in faint quasars.
LFrench637:	But the combination of New England weather and 
pressure from other courses usually caused
LFrench637:	them to back up and look at more doable projects.  
I think it is useful for us all to
JCatanz1:	!!
LFrench637:	see this dynamic in action, so that we can 
advise students appropriately.
LFrench637:	Second, we have been looking at the focus 
on some of the images.
LFrench637:	Larry pointed out that several of his 
Pallas images looked very blurry.
LFrench637:	I told a couple of people how to check the 
focus and I tried doing it myself;
LFrench637:	we haven't gotten a final result yet but 
we're working on it.  Ed is the telescope
LFrench637:	most affected at present.
LFrench637:	GA
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	The limiting magnitude on the MO scopes is 
16 according to 	the info we've been given 
(this assumes a 60-sec exposure)
JCatanz1:	I have been trying some tests and I don't think 
I've gotten anywhere near that faint.
JCatanz1:	GA
BHoff1:	Bruce,
BHoff1:	Can you explain how to do the "blinking" process 
to detect asteroids?  GA
BMellin503:	Beth asked me to describe how to "blink" images
BMellin503:	First-two images - taken at appropriate time 
intervals are needed...
BMellin503:	With Pallas ...it ranged from 4 hours between 
two images (marginal motion)...
BMellin503:	but worked well with 24 hours between images...
RobOchs:	!
JCatanz1:	!!
BMellin503:	both imaegs sholud be opened with NIH..processing 
is not usually important..
BMellin503:	go to the Stacks/windows to stack command menu
BMellin503:	this makes a twoframe mini-movie out of the two images..
BMellin503:	I'm Back ...a vitum of AOL ..
BMellin503:	Do you want me to continue??
SheM2G:	!! yes
BHoff1:	Sorry all--Bruce please continue
BMellin503:	wwhat was the last "info" to make it through ??
Lwaxman:	Movie out of two images
BHoff1:	how to stack the images
BMellin503:	OK...Either use the Stacks/Annimate command...
or the < and > keys to cycle between the images..
BMellin503:	It is likely that the asteroid will not be evident 
to the viewer yet...
BMellin503:	There is another command in the Stacks menu 
called Register...this allows you to allign the "Fixed" 
stars on both images..after registration...only the asteroid...
or possible alien spacecraft...will jump around
BMellin503:	it is also possible ..once alligned...
to measure the arcminute shift...
BMellin503:	and calculate the distance travelled by the 
??whatever?? you are tracking....
BMellin503:	ga
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	Sorry, mistake.  GA.
BHoff1:	GA Rob
RobOchs:	Do you have any plans to have the kids predict 
future positions based on a series of images?
RobOchs:	Or any basic type of orbital calculation?  GA
BMellin503:	That probably can be accomplished with Voyager....
do you have an alternative...GA
RobOchs:	Not at my fingertips but it sounds like fun.  GA
Lwaxman:	!!
BHoff1:	Is there another program that can do stacking 
besides NIH?
JCatanz1:	!!
RobOchs:	!!
BHoff1:	GA Joe
BHoff1:	Oops--Larry GA
Lwaxman:	I think that getting them to accomplish this will 
be a big enough task for first go around.
BMellin503:	I agree !!
Lwaxman:	We will then be able to assess our students to 
maybe then go on to other more advanced tasks
SheM2G:	!
Lwaxman:	But not at this stage.  GA
BHoff1:	GA Joe
JCatanz1:	For the PC: ImageTool, and also Quantum Image.  GA
BHoff1:	Thanks--GA Rob
RobOchs:	CCDSoft can "blink images" fairly easily.  I also 
believe VuePro can as well.
JCatanz1:	!!
RobOchs:	As to the prediction I mentioned, I was thinking 
about it as an
RobOchs:	enrichment activity for those gifted kids that 
come along.  GA
BHoff1:	GA Joe
BMellin503:	!!
JCatanz1:	For what platform is VuePro? GA
RobOchs:	PC I know of but I think Mac as well but not 
sure GA
BHoff1:	GA Bruce
BMellin503:	NIH is "supposed" to run under Windows 95"....
BMellin503:	ts available at the NIH web site..I'm note sure 
how "stable" it is ...hopefully..it will improve
Fsdeutsch:	!
BMellin503:	ga
BHoff1:	GA Freeman
SheM2G:	!
Fsdeutsch:	NIH Image for Windows 95 Needs alot of work.
Fsdeutsch:	It does not read GIF or FITS files
Fsdeutsch:	I am not sure it ever will!
Fsdeutsch:	ga
BHoff1:	GA Sheila
SheM2G:	I have a question about the initial images received 
by students.
SheM2G:	This question goes back to the misconception 
discussion we had last week.
SheM2G:	I have been trying to take pictures of asteroids,
and I did not know what to expect before taking them.  
I still don't really know.  I have looked at
SheM2G:	images taken by me and by other participants.  
I see a bunch of bright
SheM2G:	dots.  How much guidance will you offer students in 
taking the images, and
SheM2G:	in identifying the results?  I have looked at the orbits 
of asteroids, and I
SheM2G:	have read about them in books, but I am not sure what 
is what (yet).  I am fairly
SheM2G:	confident I will figure it out, but I am wondering how 
you will approach
SheM2G:	such questions with students.  GA
BMellin503:	!
BHoff1:	GA Bruce--Linda will moderate from here on.
Lwaxman:	!
BMellin503:	I do not plan to approah it mathematically...
BMellin503:	I plan to have them simply (?) model the 
orbits with Voyager....